Stories That Prove Podcasting and YouTube are Emerging as the Best Channels for Marketers

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Welcome to today's episode.

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Our guest today is Anika.

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She is a brand strategist, a professor and a podcaster.

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Welcome to the show.

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Eric, thank you so much.

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I'm so excited to be here.

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So why don't we start by you giving us a minute or two about who you are and what you do first?

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Absolutely.

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I have worn many hats in my career.

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I've been a multiple time entrepreneur, I have done a lot of philanthropy, but throughout all of that I've always had a center in communications.

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So, whether that's brand strategy, public relations, digital marketing, social media, that world so right now I've just had a pivot where I've turned from working full-time at an agency in those areas to podcasting full-time.

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So I'm now podcasting full-time and then I'm a professor at USC Annenberg in the grad school teaching digital media management master's program, pr and branding, the PR and Advertising Master's Program, and then I also have a podcast with USC Annenberg.

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Oh, that's fantastic.

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So why don't you tell us a story about some of the best marketing you've done that you're the most proud of?

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There are a few things that are standouts.

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One that is a couple of short stories I'll make them short from a couple of years ago.

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One thing during the pandemic I, like many people, we're all at home I ended up actually starting a PR firm and getting so many referrals that I had team members all over the United States and we worked on really great clients.

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One of our clients was a young unknown singer-songwriter named Wallace.

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She was 15.

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They'd been writing songs at home with her dad.

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They decided to shoot a little video on her iPhone for her song and they said okay, we're going to edit this video, we're going to put it out on YouTube, but you don't have a logo.

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You don't have any social media presence.

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We don't have a logo.

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You don't have any social media presence.

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We don't have a landing page.

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So in that case and this is something that I always caution people when I'm working with them on branding we had to go back and create all these assets for her.

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But what was really beautiful is for the PR side of things.

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My message was very simple.

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It was a nun singer, songwriter from outside Philly creates the Christmas hit song None of Us Knew we Needed, and it's a song called Lonely Christmas, and it wasn't just about that time.

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It could be any time that you're away from family or loved ones at Christmas time or any holiday.

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And so we did some PR.

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We put it out to big publications, little publications.

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We started getting our interviews, but we also put it out to our different communities.

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So I put it in Facebook groups and that's where the magic really happened.

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People resonated with the song so deeply that they started sharing it on Reddit.

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Then she got on the Discover page on Reddit.

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She was at the top of Reddit music, all because they really wanted a champion.

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Here's somebody who's not Mariah Carey coming out with a great Christmas song.

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And there's no big PR machine, right, she wasn't signed with a label, they hadn't been teasing things out in the media, it was just her performing rawly.

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And that song, because of those guerrilla efforts, got over 100,000 views on YouTube in the first few days.

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Now after that, then her dad said, ok, let's put a little more money behind this.

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But then the Today Show found out about it.

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Because of the Reddit work Ellen DeGeneres shared it, shows started reaching out to her.

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She got to open a radio show in London just with her song and the little hello, which is huge because England is really big on Christmas, but it showed like, without a big budget, without overthinking a campaign, we did reach over a million views on YouTube in that month of December, which is a time when everybody's advertising All the big brands are spending lots of money but we were able to break through the noise.

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So it shows if you really have something that will help spark people, then you can just make the right effort right.

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You don't have to spend tons of money, just have to spend it in the right areas.

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You have to have the right message.

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And so it's a big lesson for me, because a lot of times I do work with smaller organizations or organizations that don't have the big budgets.

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People are just starting out as entrepreneurs and that's really what I love doing is helping them figure out.

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How do we maximize what you're doing?

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Make sure you have all of this ecosystem set up so when people go to your website, they go to your social media, they see that you are exactly who you're saying you are everywhere else.

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And that was really the magic.

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And now she is a freshman actually at USC and she's studying performance and she's changing her image a little bit because she's 18.

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She can figure out what she wants to do and she's performing and that's what she's going to do with the rest of her life.

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So it was really beautiful to see that unfold and also see her still be able to enjoy being a kid right and not just being thrown into this music world and big machine.

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That's amazing.

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That's a fantastic story.

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Sometimes you can drive the best results of a million views on the video when you don't have resources and when you are unknown, because you did something that was just great and simple and people loved it.

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That's amazing.

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Yeah, I was just one part of the team, but it's one of the things I'll always be most proud of is just helping her be authentically her in that campaign.

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Yeah, some people go their entire career and don't get that.

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So to get it right out of the gate at the start of her career, that is pretty, pretty remarkable.

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Yeah.

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And then they did something a little different.

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They didn't take really calls with any of the labels that were interested in them.

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She just released maybe one or two songs a year because she was still going to high school, she was still involved in school activities, she still wanted to be a kid and I think that helped her develop as a person in a much richer way than going into that immediate effect of oh, now we're going to have a big label with a big PR firm and spend a lot of money, because I also don't think that the audience that loved her for the first song or the second song or the third song would have resonated with that more polished image, if you will.

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They would have been able to tell there's a difference.

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Right, absolutely so.

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Talk to us a little bit about being a full-time podcaster.

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That's pretty interesting about 2017 to 2019.

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It was really fun, really loved it.

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We had multiple sets and we did we do different things.

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Once it was more Facebook than radio and the radio.

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Obviously, we're just in one room, but I found because I'd already loved MC and I already loved public speaking that I really loved interviewing people.

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So when I moved back to Los Angeles in the middle of 2019 and restarted my life and my career, I was going into PR.

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I was working for clients and a couple of them knew that I had a show before.

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So they said, well, will you start a podcast for us, because I was already being interviewed on podcasts, getting people interviewed for my PR firm.

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I said, sure, so I did that, quickly realized that neither one of them really had a budget or the time to sustain that.

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It's not an easy process.

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It has to be very intentional and I think that's why so many people quit when they start and then they go okay, I give up, I'm going to revisit this later, I'm just going to quit altogether.

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So we came to a point where money or pain is really just going to production.

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We need more resources if we're going to make this bigger impact tool for you, because I do believe that podcasting is the omni-channel marketing that you get audio video, you get organic content to share across your social media, you can create a blog newsletter, you're making great connections, networking with people, and so I saw it as a really great tool.

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And my partner is a filmmaker and he said why don't you just start your own podcast?

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Since they can't sustain, you don't need to do this for somebody else.

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You love speaking to people and just do your own.

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So I said, ok, great, you know what, I'm going to do my own.

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And I started out with your Brand Amplified as a PR-focused podcast and I was like I'm going to have five questions and I'm only going to bring publicists on and I'm going to keep it to this length.

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And that quickly all went out the window because I realized that wasn't really authentic to me and how I like to talk to people.

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But I didn't take it very seriously for a while.

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I started the podcast in 2000 and I would just do episodes here and there, but then, once I started being more consistent, putting out an episode every week, I started seeing the audience grow.

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I started seeing people find it who wanted to be good guests and from there it just kept growing and growing and I was like gosh, I had to have a wait list.

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People are waiting like a year to get on the podcast.

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I have so many episodes in the can that I can release one every weekday, and so I did that.

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For 2022 and 2023, december, which is my birthday month and the end of the year, I released an episode every weekday.

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Then I found it just kept growing and growing and I advised my grad students on podcasting because they have to create a capstone project.

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So I just kept getting more and more into this world and when I transitioned from my full-time agency job now, I all of a sudden this year was approached by sponsors, by an ad network, and that gave me the ability to have a little bit of a cushion to make the transition to full-time, to see what else I could do to help grow this platform, to keep advocating for other people with podcasting.

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Then I also started.

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We turned a speaker series at USC into a podcast, made that a weekly series and then now I have the opportunity to work with other people on podcasts and help them find their way and grow them really intentionally and for long-lasting effort right With a strong foundation, not just coming in starting something you know how hard it is and then deciding to just you know what.

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I can't do this.

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I want people to get into it and stay in and see the magic, but you have to be consistent be consistent.

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So how do you think about this intersection of PR, podcasting, branding, based on your extensive background?

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I'm just curious.

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It's evolving and changing and morphing into something new, right?

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Yeah, I think a lot of publicists still are wary about using podcast connection platforms like Podmatch or Matchmaker FM or PitchDB, because they see people who pitch for podcasts as not publicists.

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My argument is that this really is the way to get seen, to get visible, to get your message out there, to show that somebody else believes that you have the expertise that you're saying that you do on your website or your own social media.

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So to me, there is just there's a merger where, if you are a publicist, you're missing out on the opportunity to use podcasting.

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A lot of companies are now using podcasting as a brand tool.

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Even Trader Joe's has a podcast.

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Now you might not listen to it because they're going to talk about specials and whatever and employees, but I've heard it is interesting and unique.

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So there truly can be a podcast for everything and you can find the right people.

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So, as a PR tool, as a marketing tool, as a sales tool, you can turn.

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If you have a really successful episode, I put promotional dollars behind them, right so then you can turn it into advertising to share your message.

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Or if I'm on a podcast, I'm going to share that podcast with my audience in my newsletter, on my website, my social media, because then it also is a thank you to the host and it's also showing.

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Look, this person thinks that I have stuff to say about this topic and I know what I'm talking about.

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So I do think that this is the wave of the future.

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We don't know what's going on with different social media platforms.

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The algorithms are changing, but podcasting is something you need to do chop up the content, use it in many different ways.

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Why do you think podcasting is growing so much as a marketing channel?

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It's not just Joe Rogan, it's a lot of companies.

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It's a lot of companies, it's a lot of individuals.

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What is the reason beyond its continued growth, particularly, I think, in the last couple of years?

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Now you can listen to a podcast and multitask.

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I often listen to them when I'm walking the dogs.

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I'm a big fan of listening to other people's podcasts and also listening to my own to remember what that guest said, that I want to do or what book they mentioned that, when you're doing stuff around the house.

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So it's a format that doesn't require you to sit on a couch and just watch a TV show or scroll through your phone and look at social media.

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Necessarily, I do know a lot of younger generation do to watch podcast episodes on YouTube and they do it the same thing.

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Maybe they're doing their homework.

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A lot of my college students they'll be doing their homework and they'll have YouTube on in the background with podcasts, which is really interesting.

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But I love the fact that it's a format that lets you continue to have your brain and knowledge base expand, but you're not having to sit in one place.

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It's not going to hold you hostage.

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You can pause it and go back and not worry about maybe if you're watching a TV show and other people share your channel and then they start watching that show and then you have to go back and find your place.

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It's a conversation, it's an intimate conversation.

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It's like we're having a conversation over our computers, but it's like we're having coffee together, right, and that's one of the beauties, too.

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I think it really helps people get to know other people on a more personal level, and that's what we see.

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People want that authenticity.

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They want to know who they're dealing with, that they're going to go into business with you, and so that is why I think there's been this explosion.

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It's interesting.

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One of the things that I've done and I know a number of other people who are taking this tack as well is I went in and I looked at the top 100 marketing podcasts on Chartable.

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I'm like, what are the other top marketing podcasts doing?

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I'm generally interested in marketing, obviously, so I went in and I picked a bunch of them and I followed them and I just as their episodes come out.

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I watch them every week and I probably have between marketing, the top marketing and business podcasts.

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I probably have 20 or 30 that I follow and I think it's really interesting to follow the programs and to see what people are doing.

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There's a lot of people who are doing really cool things.

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I think I might have to subscribe to the Trader Joe's one.

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Maybe I can be a guest and give some reviews of my favorite dishes.

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But the thing about it is I'm curious, have you found some ways in starting to do this full time where you've been able to build a tech stack, some systems and some processes that make it easier to do at scale?

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Yeah, that has been something I've definitely been putting intentionality into, because I know that if I want to be successful at this then I have to have the systems right and I tend to be a person who likes to jump in as an entrepreneur, as a marketer.

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Of course, I want to do the market research, but I didn't know that this is what I was going to end up doing with this podcast.

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So I have an admin who works on all of so much of the stuff that I used to have to deal with.

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So once an episode is, she'll check the calendar, make sure we have all the information we need from the guests.

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If we don't, she will email them our Google form.

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Then she checks to make sure everything's lined up After the interview and after the editing process.

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Then she creates a Google folder for each guest where we put at least one video reel, a static graphic blog post, captions for social media transcripts, if they want the raw, if they want the video, so that they can also make some chop it up and do some stuff.

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We're happy to provide that, but we want to arm our guests with as much stuff for them to also promote successfully and be able to share the episode, so that is one of the biggest things that I think is so important.

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The to share the episode, so that is one of the biggest things that I think is so important.

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The other thing is making sure we're turning our episodes into blog posts.

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I have some up on my website, but I certainly have a whole bunch more.

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So it's not.

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It's always a work in progress, it's always a process, but starting to just having the admin who takes care of those things for me has been life-changing.

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It's helped me really focus on the guests and the quality and what are other techniques I can use to promote the podcast.

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Maybe I can get on these channels in India.

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I'm not an Indian podcaster, but being on two big, huge platforms in one of the largest countries in the world can't hurt, right.

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So I'm constantly looking at what are good ways to promote or like poditize.

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I don't use them for hosting, but they have a hosting level where, for less than two thousand dollars for the year, your ads for your podcast that you can decide what ads are going up will be served to mobile users.

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I get served over 500,000 mobile users a month and I get to see how many click through and then I can re-tailor my content that's going out in these ads, for I couldn't have bought that for two thousand dollars for a month, probably to get my ad served to that many people.

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But because they do it for all of their podcasters, their whole ecosystem, they get a bulk buy, and so I'm always testing and iterating different techniques to continue to improve my production, my SOPs, my visibility, what the tools are out there that will really promote or advertise or what ads want to come on, and which ones are really best for the audience.

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What are the top things that you recommend to your students who are getting into podcasting and other podcasters?

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Be really clear about your brand, right.

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The audience can be like when people ask me what my audience is.

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I'm like my college students.

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I have people who work for companies that my agency has worked with that might not have the marketing budgets, but then my sweet spot, of course, is entrepreneurs and small businesses.

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So you don't have to necessarily be super clear in your audience, because I know all these people will find different episodes they'll be interested in, which is fine, because I'm not one where you have to listen to every episode in order.

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But you have to have a strong brand right.

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So make sure that your brand identity is strong, that you know what your mission, vision, values are, your purpose for having the podcast.

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You have the same brand identity across your digital ecosystem.

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Have a website.

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You can trademark it if you think that's going to be important.

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I have a registered trademark for your brand, amplified.

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So first is the business side of it.

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What do you look like?

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What's your purpose?

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Why are you putting this content out?

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The next one is your equipment.

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You don't have to spend a lot of money on equipment.

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You can start pretty easily, but make sure that you have an external mic.

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I have one, you just can't see it, but I have it set so it doesn't pick up any other sound like my dog start barking or whatever else.

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Make sure that you have a good space, test it out, make sure the background will look okay.

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There's still things I want to fix, but it's not horrible.

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So make sure that you have a safe, like a great place for production.

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You can start with really easy tools and then make sure, above all else, if you don't have all the other SOPs figured out that you are consistent.

00:19:35.778 --> 00:20:01.457
I will always believe unless you are a certain kind of podcast that is huge and well-funded and about one specific issue, that in time, right in history or whatever that you should try to put out an episode every week, because that helps your audience find you, that helps more people engage with your content, it helps you have more content for them to engage, it helps with your SEO, it helps with so many things and it helps you really find your footing.

00:20:01.457 --> 00:20:09.547
I know that I'm definitely a very different interviewer than I was in my first 20 episodes to my first 50 to 100 to 200 to 300 to 350.

00:20:09.547 --> 00:20:14.596
And I'm also better at talking and being a guest at the same time.

00:20:14.596 --> 00:20:17.007
So those would be my three pieces of advice.

00:20:17.007 --> 00:20:19.513
Really understand your brand blueprint.

00:20:19.513 --> 00:20:22.107
Make sure that you have good equipment to start with.

00:20:22.107 --> 00:20:23.371
Doesn't have to break the bank.

00:20:23.371 --> 00:20:25.656
You can have a blue Yeti mic under a.

00:20:30.002 --> 00:20:31.828
I think that's great advice, thank you.

00:20:31.828 --> 00:20:33.987
So one more question.

00:20:33.987 --> 00:20:57.773
This, I think, is somewhat controversial among podcasters, but I'm curious your thoughts about podcasting the video version on YouTube, because a lot of people said podcasts originally were all new audio, but they retired Google podcasts and now there's podcast playlists on YouTube and YouTube is leaning into that a little bit.

00:20:57.773 --> 00:21:03.353
What is your view on our podcasts now, audio and video?

00:21:03.353 --> 00:21:05.106
Should they all be audio and video?

00:21:06.681 --> 00:21:11.009
I am a firm believer in the world of the podcast.

00:21:11.009 --> 00:21:12.953
Slash vodcast, if you will.

00:21:12.953 --> 00:21:18.585
World of the podcast slash vodcast, if you will.

00:21:18.585 --> 00:21:31.886
I think that, yes, people hear your voice on the video, on the audio, right, but sometimes people also want to see who they're interacting with and it's fun sometimes to see, like, how you and a guest vibe on your podcast or if I'm on your podcast, right, how we vibe and how the reactions that we have.

00:21:32.509 --> 00:21:37.490
I think that creates another level of fun and another level of people are really like looking in our living room.

00:21:37.490 --> 00:21:44.443
It's almost like reality TV shows in some way, except without all of the hopefully, the screaming and the controversy and the drama.

00:21:44.443 --> 00:21:51.486
It's just you can come here like you're bringing a cup of coffee, watch us on YouTube and enjoy a conversation and learn something.

00:21:51.486 --> 00:21:53.409
So I'm a big believer.

00:21:53.409 --> 00:22:01.586
I actually have my show as a TV show on Traverse TV, which is an OTT streaming platform, but yeah, I do think it's a huge thing.

00:22:01.586 --> 00:22:10.646
I also obviously gives us video content to use on social media, and shorts are something that everybody's into right now, so I'd love what's your view on it?

00:22:12.702 --> 00:22:22.407
I've started building up the YouTube channel for the podcast here and I'm going to continue to build it, because I think 100 million people are listening to a podcast on YouTube.

00:22:22.407 --> 00:22:31.250
I think it's a different type of listener probably than people who are traditionally listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

00:22:31.250 --> 00:22:34.326
But will there be crossover between the two?

00:22:34.326 --> 00:22:40.230
I think the jury is still out on that, potentially, but I'm interested to see what happens.

00:22:40.230 --> 00:22:44.666
And I think YouTube is one of the best marketing channels for marketers today.

00:22:44.666 --> 00:22:46.291
I've done several episodes in that lately.

00:22:46.291 --> 00:22:52.202
It's just unbelievable how great of a channel it is compared to a lot of the other marketing channels these days.

00:22:52.202 --> 00:22:54.410
So I'm on board with it.

00:22:54.410 --> 00:22:58.590
But some people are like are almost religious of no podcasting was only audio.

00:22:58.590 --> 00:23:04.144
That's where I started and I'm like I get it, like I'll do an audio version but I'm also going to do the video and then people can choose.

00:23:04.144 --> 00:23:05.383
On my podcast website.

00:23:05.383 --> 00:23:07.410
I actually let people choose.

00:23:07.410 --> 00:23:10.404
They can watch the YouTube or the audio version.

00:23:10.705 --> 00:23:11.066
Oh nice.

00:23:12.087 --> 00:23:13.951
Choose your own ending or your own story.

00:23:14.332 --> 00:23:14.893
I love that.

00:23:14.893 --> 00:23:15.493
I love that.

00:23:15.493 --> 00:23:18.609
And the people who are not using video?

00:23:18.609 --> 00:23:20.185
They are going to get left behind.

00:23:20.185 --> 00:23:21.644
They already are left behind.

00:23:23.020 --> 00:23:25.450
Any final thoughts on podcasting you want to share?

00:23:26.422 --> 00:23:30.628
If you feel like you have a message but you are worried that the market's oversaturated guess what?

00:23:30.628 --> 00:23:31.069
It's not.

00:23:31.069 --> 00:23:34.769
The majority of podcasts don't last past 10 episodes.

00:23:34.769 --> 00:23:36.445
There is room for all of us.

00:23:36.445 --> 00:23:39.609
We all have slightly different messages to bring to the world.

00:23:39.609 --> 00:23:42.805
We have our own experiences, so don't be afraid to start.

00:23:42.805 --> 00:23:46.009
This, I think, is still the perfect time.

00:23:46.009 --> 00:23:50.932
It's not too late to hop on the bandwagon and join us as podcasters.

00:23:50.932 --> 00:23:53.683
I love doing free strategy sessions.

00:23:53.683 --> 00:24:06.088
If anybody, not even about podcasting, just wants to talk about branding, PR, anything else, I'm happy to do that and do a free consult and then direct them to somebody who could help them, if it's not me.

00:24:07.952 --> 00:24:08.433
Amazing.

00:24:08.433 --> 00:24:17.967
I will link to your podcast and your website in the show notes so people can easily get there if they'd like to take you up on that very generous offer.

00:24:17.967 --> 00:24:21.142
Thank you for that and we appreciate you joining us today.

00:24:21.142 --> 00:24:31.328
Sharing your story and these tips and ideas about podcasting as it's evolving as one of the best channels in marketing is my personal belief.

00:24:31.328 --> 00:24:33.020
Thank you for ratifying that belief today.

00:24:34.505 --> 00:24:36.230
Thanks, eric, this has been a fun conversation.